I’ve been saying similar things about maths, the Russian approach, ‘math circles’ and so on for *years*. So, I’m going to tell myself ‘Dominic Cummings agrees with me’ rather than say ‘I agree with Dominic Cummings’, because although the former makes my teeth itch, the latter makes me want to drive rusty nails into my eyeballs.
Ah that would be so fun! Are you all enjoying the Middle Ages? So far I feel it’s not going as well as the Classical World did for us, I think we need a few more day trips. I guess Medieval day trips are more of a challenge in Florida…?!
I think it's going well! We are using Story of the World, which moves around quite a bit, and my boys seem to be enjoying the ride. We just read about Sinbad the Sailor last week and they were clamoring for more.
Of course, not everything enthralls. But I like the emphasis on narratives of people and the legends and folktales throughout. And yes, there aren't the same options for field trips here in Florida as far as Middle Ages goes :)
Honestly, though, I think the UK approach to maths is pretty good. Better than the US curricula I'm used to, anyway. A lot of the newer curricula do absolutely teach kids how to think, not just do arithmetic by rote.
Nov 16, 2023·edited Nov 16, 2023Liked by Catherine Oliver
Oh! And this is a good fb group for math circle ideas if you want to run one yourself or just do the activities. The group is run by a lady who runs circles in the US: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1462824274045497
Thanks Catherine. Curious what raised your eyebrows in particular? I state some concerns from personal experience and about collective implications of increased divestment from public education. But I don’t see homeschooling as a monolith and am curious about others’ stories.
Which bits of your piece raised my eyebrows? In no particular order: “I don’t want my tax dollars paying for someone to teach their kids that vaccines cause autism or infertility.” Nor do I! 1. Who said most homeschoolers teach this? and 2. As Ruth recently commented on your own post, brainwashing can take place when children are in school, too.
“Public school librated me from that marching crowd” - a statement many home educators would happily say about liberating their children from school.
“I think of young women whose self-realisation will be stunted or denied” - I’ve yet to meet a homeschooler whose daughter was at risk of this. And the idea that “young men… won’t get to forge friendships with people from different social classes, races, or religions”—well, as the WaPo’s piece showed, there are a LOT of homeschoolers out there, and they are a very diverse bunch. My own little home ed community is more diverse than the school my daughter initially attended.
You say that homeschool is a ‘shield against the world’ - this is absolutely not how I see it. The homeschoolers I know in ‘real life’ and via this Substack overwhelmingly want their children to dive head first into the world and explore all the richness it contains. We just don’t feel school is necessarily the best place to do that.
You describe your daughter’s gorgeous experience at a middle school dance and regret the homeschooled children who will miss out on such fun and belonging. But again, there are loads of us homeschoolers, and sure, our children miss out on school experiences, but that doesn’t mean missing out on fun and belonging. Historically there have been many ways to be a child—public school is just one of them.
You say public educators aren’t out to indoctrinate or brainwash - they really do want to create spaces for dialogue and discovery. And I agree with you, for the most part. I have teachers in my own family as many other home educators do, and I know they want the best for the children in their care. The funny thing is, parents—homeschooling or not—also want these things for their children!
You suggest that pulling children out of public education breeds doubt in other public institutions, and (and forgive me if I’m misreading you here) seem to suggest that doubts about election results, climate change, and basic facts about public health are all mixed in with this. I’m not quite sure if you’re saying homeschooling families are more likely to share these beliefs? Is there data on that? From my own personal experience it’s not something I’ve seen.
But in the end I wonder if you’re perhaps not quite as anti-homeschooling as you think you might be. You say you “can’t imagine any rationale that would sway a parent who felt that a public school had begun to fail their child”, and you also say you could not imagine sending your children to the same school you attended. Many parents feel their local schools have begun to fail their children. And for many parents, the ‘school you attended’ is what is currently available. Choosing to home educate is not a decision families take lightly—in many ways it would be much easier to send our children to school! But many of us have come to the conclusion that we can do a better job than the local schools, give our children a better childhood, and help them grow into adults who will be valuable members of society. You’re absolutely right that homeschooling is not a monolith, but perhaps I feel that your piece painted it in a fairly monolithic light.
Sorry, that got long! I’d love to hear your thoughts and further questions.
Catherine, your remarks hew closer to my actual text near the end, where you acknowledge that I'm not making blanket statements. The pressure points for many families, especially those whose children have special needs or those living in less buoyant communities (like the current state of my hometown), are real. I don't minimize those concerns.
I've been surprised by the number of commenters from the UK, since my piece squarely addresses data from the U.S. Is homeschooling the fastest growing form of education in the UK? Has it sustained that growth for three years, as it has in the U.S.? It seems there are some overlaps, but I'm responding primarily to the American scene, which contextualizes some of my other anecdotes and claims. Homeschooling in the U.S. gained most traction among evangelical Christian families in the 1980s and 90s, around the time my sister was home schooled. Tara Westover writes, in her memoir Educated, about her experience as a home schooled child in a similar family. While the homeschooling community in the U.S. has grown more diverse, its most visible champions are religious conservatives. And in rural places like my native Mountain West, homeschooling is often synonymous with social isolation. I take pains to clarify that these are anecdotes from my own experience, not generalizations. My sister's experience and Tara Westover's is the reference for my daughter's middle school dance. It's good to hear that it's not that way everywhere.
However, the ethical crux of my argument still feels unresolved. A public system has been an anchor for many students from less privileged families or from non-traditional families in the U.S. A single parent or a parent who shares custody equally with a former spouse doesn't have the same options as two-parent families with one primary earner. If we erode the public system further, I really believe we return to earlier, less equitable, periods in American history. I don't think that would be in the public interest -- it would impact the national economy and other institutions.
But I do appreciate the opportunity for some dialogue about this.
Yes, homeschooling is hugely on the rise in the UK. Our data is not as good as in the US, but estimates suggest a 50% increase from 2018/19-2023, or 130% since 2013. As in the US, this rise has prompted concern, which is why I feel the need to question pieces such as yours. Although you say you’re not making blanket statements, you don’t refer to a single positive example of home education. This matters, because the policy response to a population of homeschoolers in the Westover mould would obviously be very different to the policy response to a population of loving, well-informed parents who want to give their children the very best education they can, and undertake to do so despite the huge effort and considerable expense involved.
As to eroding trust in public institutions, I think increased homeschooling is a symptom of this erosion, not a cause. In the UK, for example, 41% of schooled children leave primary school (aged 10-11) without meeting the ‘expected standards’ in reading, writing, and maths. As one commenter posted on Notes, there is a crisis in education and homeschooling is far down the list of problems.
This is all interesting, Catherine, and you've helped me broaden my view. I typically post on Tuesdays and Fridays, so I may write up a few takeaways from the discussion.
Your point about me not mentioning a single positive example is fair. So that's something I'll need to consider. The anecdotes that have moved me most are those from parents who feel their children were suffering unacceptable harm in the public system, either because of special needs or mental health. Those who soar higher academically in home school move me less, because I remember how important my peer group was in helping me fly higher than I might have, and because I feel that maximizing academic achievement is one of many intersecting priorities in a child's development. All too complex for a comment thread! Obviously no one wants children to fall woefully short of basic standards, either.
I do want to respond to your point about Westover, however. Often policy responses have to anticipate extreme examples; policy is usually a corrective. This is why regulation of homeschool seems necessary to me -- some set of basic academic standards or content that both public schools and homeschools would need to meet. Otherwise you can bet that some people would be using tax dollars to teach kids not to get vaccinated, as I suggested. Again, this is personal to me because I lost a cousin to COVID in October, 2021. She was 40 years old, mother to 7 children, whom she homeschooled. She was not vaccinated. Her kids were told that her death was God's will. I cannot accept that homeschool is in their best interest, and I see a direct causal line from their education and social isolation in Alaska to distrust in public health recommendations. These aren't kids who are ever going to become public school educators, either, which is one of those long-term domino effects. I chose not to include this anecdote in my original essay, but it's a part of the problem that I think it's dangerous to ignore.
I'm also mindful that all parents in this scenario view themselves as loving and well-informed. My parents certainly did. And if anyone had asked me in high school, I'd have said that all of the strictures in my home life were good for me. I didn't know any better. Now I think it was cruel to have banned television and movies from our home, I question their worries about me being corrupted by friends if I stayed overnight at their homes, and I recognize that the picture I developed of myself then -- that I was introverted -- was not actually true. It was a consequence of my isolation. When I went to college and could develop friendships with more freedom, I discovered that I was actually quite social and extroverted. Part of what I appreciate about public schools is that it requires humility on my part -- everything I think is best might not be, or at least might be more complicated than I assume, and I can learn and grow along with my kids.
Hi Joshua, I read your post after Catherine linked to it. Writing from Vermont here. To bring up Tara Westover's book, as beautiful and deeply felt as it is, is still a cheap shot a discussion of homeschooling today. That segment of parenting style is a tiny fraction of homeschooling today. And as Tara documents in the book, the state barely attempted to reach out to them in any way. I would argue that is more a reflections on the state's failure than her parents decisions. This is the ethical crux of your argument, which I agree you don't resolve in your article, though it is full of lovely observations and anecdotes. If our society truly cared about education and the advancement of children, we would be solving what is otherwise called "the daycare problem." Children need safe spaces to pursue their curiosities, get a warm meal, engage in free play with their peers, and speak with adults in conversation, all of these at nearly any of the day from 5am-10pm. Their parents are being asked to work during these hours, we all know this, and every child would benefit enormously from having a place like this as an option. State funded schools as they are now do meet any of these needs. Instead our tax dollars are hauled in and spent at a stunning rate ($29k per student in my area of Vermont) with nearly no changes to the structure from when you and I were in school. Children are being penalized for not sitting properly in a chair for hours when pediatric physical therapists can state for a fact that physical activities including spinning, jumping, and balancing are required in order for the hand to learn to write and read. What's the penalty for not sitting? Shortened recess. Children are not learning to read (see multiple US statistics that support this). Boys in particular are dropping out of high school at higher rates, demonstrating that public curriculum as it is has not engaged them to see the value of the work. A friend of mine recently asked if her son in 6th grade could use a math curriculum during the math hour from a different year (he has tested into advanced math) and was told "No." She also asked if he could use a pencil instead of pen in a writing class, and was told "No." This was in a wealthy and privileged district.
But more to the modern point, standardized curriculum needs to be entirely revised. The new era demands that the population can teach themselves new skills and languages alongside the machines. We need the innate desire to learn, curiosity, to flourish above and beyond anything else.
The Christian advocacies groups that formed to support homeschoolers in the 80s and 90s did so because the state was pointedly out to get them. As I'm sure you know, homeschooling was in fact illegal in many of the states at that point. They happened to be first on the scene to defend families.
I was homeschooled in an evangelical christian until 8th grade at which point I opted to go to school. My six siblings all opted to go into school somewhere between 6-9th grade. All of them have ended up being entrepreneurs. When I arrived in school, I was shocked my how much time my peers were willing to waste every day, waiting to be told the next thing to do. I was surprised by how little interest they had in building relationships with the teachers. And I was astonished by how much relevance they placed on gossip and small cruelties to their peers. I am thankful for my years in high school--the friends, memories, adventures. But I always felt it was an enormous gift to have formed my core memories and curiosities at home.
As someone who was also homeschooled through middle school, I can attest to what Rachael wrote here. Also, Rachael, I really like how you worded your last line --"I always felt it was an enormous gift to have formed my core memories and curiosities at home." Agree!
I’ve been saying similar things about maths, the Russian approach, ‘math circles’ and so on for *years*. So, I’m going to tell myself ‘Dominic Cummings agrees with me’ rather than say ‘I agree with Dominic Cummings’, because although the former makes my teeth itch, the latter makes me want to drive rusty nails into my eyeballs.
Ha! That made me laugh out loud. Thank you, Ruth!
There are some free circles online (11+) : https://parallel.org.uk/circles
My son has been to some, they're great.
They look great. My daughter is six but definitely something to consider when she’s older.
Amazing! Wish we could tour around with you! We are studying Middle Ages as well.
Ah that would be so fun! Are you all enjoying the Middle Ages? So far I feel it’s not going as well as the Classical World did for us, I think we need a few more day trips. I guess Medieval day trips are more of a challenge in Florida…?!
I think it's going well! We are using Story of the World, which moves around quite a bit, and my boys seem to be enjoying the ride. We just read about Sinbad the Sailor last week and they were clamoring for more.
Of course, not everything enthralls. But I like the emphasis on narratives of people and the legends and folktales throughout. And yes, there aren't the same options for field trips here in Florida as far as Middle Ages goes :)
FYI (re:Cummings) we actually already have maths circles running free online, Simon Singh runs them! They're for 11+.
https://parallel.org.uk/circles
Honestly, though, I think the UK approach to maths is pretty good. Better than the US curricula I'm used to, anyway. A lot of the newer curricula do absolutely teach kids how to think, not just do arithmetic by rote.
Oh! And this is a good fb group for math circle ideas if you want to run one yourself or just do the activities. The group is run by a lady who runs circles in the US: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1462824274045497
Thanks Catherine. Curious what raised your eyebrows in particular? I state some concerns from personal experience and about collective implications of increased divestment from public education. But I don’t see homeschooling as a monolith and am curious about others’ stories.
If you’re curious about other’s stories you are in the right place! This is the latest guest post written for me by a homeschooler and there are links at the bottom of the post to lots of others: https://howwehomeschool.substack.com/p/special-guest-edition-how-we-homeschooled-3ff
Which bits of your piece raised my eyebrows? In no particular order: “I don’t want my tax dollars paying for someone to teach their kids that vaccines cause autism or infertility.” Nor do I! 1. Who said most homeschoolers teach this? and 2. As Ruth recently commented on your own post, brainwashing can take place when children are in school, too.
“Public school librated me from that marching crowd” - a statement many home educators would happily say about liberating their children from school.
“I think of young women whose self-realisation will be stunted or denied” - I’ve yet to meet a homeschooler whose daughter was at risk of this. And the idea that “young men… won’t get to forge friendships with people from different social classes, races, or religions”—well, as the WaPo’s piece showed, there are a LOT of homeschoolers out there, and they are a very diverse bunch. My own little home ed community is more diverse than the school my daughter initially attended.
You say that homeschool is a ‘shield against the world’ - this is absolutely not how I see it. The homeschoolers I know in ‘real life’ and via this Substack overwhelmingly want their children to dive head first into the world and explore all the richness it contains. We just don’t feel school is necessarily the best place to do that.
You describe your daughter’s gorgeous experience at a middle school dance and regret the homeschooled children who will miss out on such fun and belonging. But again, there are loads of us homeschoolers, and sure, our children miss out on school experiences, but that doesn’t mean missing out on fun and belonging. Historically there have been many ways to be a child—public school is just one of them.
You say public educators aren’t out to indoctrinate or brainwash - they really do want to create spaces for dialogue and discovery. And I agree with you, for the most part. I have teachers in my own family as many other home educators do, and I know they want the best for the children in their care. The funny thing is, parents—homeschooling or not—also want these things for their children!
You suggest that pulling children out of public education breeds doubt in other public institutions, and (and forgive me if I’m misreading you here) seem to suggest that doubts about election results, climate change, and basic facts about public health are all mixed in with this. I’m not quite sure if you’re saying homeschooling families are more likely to share these beliefs? Is there data on that? From my own personal experience it’s not something I’ve seen.
But in the end I wonder if you’re perhaps not quite as anti-homeschooling as you think you might be. You say you “can’t imagine any rationale that would sway a parent who felt that a public school had begun to fail their child”, and you also say you could not imagine sending your children to the same school you attended. Many parents feel their local schools have begun to fail their children. And for many parents, the ‘school you attended’ is what is currently available. Choosing to home educate is not a decision families take lightly—in many ways it would be much easier to send our children to school! But many of us have come to the conclusion that we can do a better job than the local schools, give our children a better childhood, and help them grow into adults who will be valuable members of society. You’re absolutely right that homeschooling is not a monolith, but perhaps I feel that your piece painted it in a fairly monolithic light.
Sorry, that got long! I’d love to hear your thoughts and further questions.
Catherine, your remarks hew closer to my actual text near the end, where you acknowledge that I'm not making blanket statements. The pressure points for many families, especially those whose children have special needs or those living in less buoyant communities (like the current state of my hometown), are real. I don't minimize those concerns.
I've been surprised by the number of commenters from the UK, since my piece squarely addresses data from the U.S. Is homeschooling the fastest growing form of education in the UK? Has it sustained that growth for three years, as it has in the U.S.? It seems there are some overlaps, but I'm responding primarily to the American scene, which contextualizes some of my other anecdotes and claims. Homeschooling in the U.S. gained most traction among evangelical Christian families in the 1980s and 90s, around the time my sister was home schooled. Tara Westover writes, in her memoir Educated, about her experience as a home schooled child in a similar family. While the homeschooling community in the U.S. has grown more diverse, its most visible champions are religious conservatives. And in rural places like my native Mountain West, homeschooling is often synonymous with social isolation. I take pains to clarify that these are anecdotes from my own experience, not generalizations. My sister's experience and Tara Westover's is the reference for my daughter's middle school dance. It's good to hear that it's not that way everywhere.
However, the ethical crux of my argument still feels unresolved. A public system has been an anchor for many students from less privileged families or from non-traditional families in the U.S. A single parent or a parent who shares custody equally with a former spouse doesn't have the same options as two-parent families with one primary earner. If we erode the public system further, I really believe we return to earlier, less equitable, periods in American history. I don't think that would be in the public interest -- it would impact the national economy and other institutions.
But I do appreciate the opportunity for some dialogue about this.
Yes, homeschooling is hugely on the rise in the UK. Our data is not as good as in the US, but estimates suggest a 50% increase from 2018/19-2023, or 130% since 2013. As in the US, this rise has prompted concern, which is why I feel the need to question pieces such as yours. Although you say you’re not making blanket statements, you don’t refer to a single positive example of home education. This matters, because the policy response to a population of homeschoolers in the Westover mould would obviously be very different to the policy response to a population of loving, well-informed parents who want to give their children the very best education they can, and undertake to do so despite the huge effort and considerable expense involved.
As to eroding trust in public institutions, I think increased homeschooling is a symptom of this erosion, not a cause. In the UK, for example, 41% of schooled children leave primary school (aged 10-11) without meeting the ‘expected standards’ in reading, writing, and maths. As one commenter posted on Notes, there is a crisis in education and homeschooling is far down the list of problems.
This is all interesting, Catherine, and you've helped me broaden my view. I typically post on Tuesdays and Fridays, so I may write up a few takeaways from the discussion.
Your point about me not mentioning a single positive example is fair. So that's something I'll need to consider. The anecdotes that have moved me most are those from parents who feel their children were suffering unacceptable harm in the public system, either because of special needs or mental health. Those who soar higher academically in home school move me less, because I remember how important my peer group was in helping me fly higher than I might have, and because I feel that maximizing academic achievement is one of many intersecting priorities in a child's development. All too complex for a comment thread! Obviously no one wants children to fall woefully short of basic standards, either.
I do want to respond to your point about Westover, however. Often policy responses have to anticipate extreme examples; policy is usually a corrective. This is why regulation of homeschool seems necessary to me -- some set of basic academic standards or content that both public schools and homeschools would need to meet. Otherwise you can bet that some people would be using tax dollars to teach kids not to get vaccinated, as I suggested. Again, this is personal to me because I lost a cousin to COVID in October, 2021. She was 40 years old, mother to 7 children, whom she homeschooled. She was not vaccinated. Her kids were told that her death was God's will. I cannot accept that homeschool is in their best interest, and I see a direct causal line from their education and social isolation in Alaska to distrust in public health recommendations. These aren't kids who are ever going to become public school educators, either, which is one of those long-term domino effects. I chose not to include this anecdote in my original essay, but it's a part of the problem that I think it's dangerous to ignore.
I'm also mindful that all parents in this scenario view themselves as loving and well-informed. My parents certainly did. And if anyone had asked me in high school, I'd have said that all of the strictures in my home life were good for me. I didn't know any better. Now I think it was cruel to have banned television and movies from our home, I question their worries about me being corrupted by friends if I stayed overnight at their homes, and I recognize that the picture I developed of myself then -- that I was introverted -- was not actually true. It was a consequence of my isolation. When I went to college and could develop friendships with more freedom, I discovered that I was actually quite social and extroverted. Part of what I appreciate about public schools is that it requires humility on my part -- everything I think is best might not be, or at least might be more complicated than I assume, and I can learn and grow along with my kids.
Hi Joshua, I read your post after Catherine linked to it. Writing from Vermont here. To bring up Tara Westover's book, as beautiful and deeply felt as it is, is still a cheap shot a discussion of homeschooling today. That segment of parenting style is a tiny fraction of homeschooling today. And as Tara documents in the book, the state barely attempted to reach out to them in any way. I would argue that is more a reflections on the state's failure than her parents decisions. This is the ethical crux of your argument, which I agree you don't resolve in your article, though it is full of lovely observations and anecdotes. If our society truly cared about education and the advancement of children, we would be solving what is otherwise called "the daycare problem." Children need safe spaces to pursue their curiosities, get a warm meal, engage in free play with their peers, and speak with adults in conversation, all of these at nearly any of the day from 5am-10pm. Their parents are being asked to work during these hours, we all know this, and every child would benefit enormously from having a place like this as an option. State funded schools as they are now do meet any of these needs. Instead our tax dollars are hauled in and spent at a stunning rate ($29k per student in my area of Vermont) with nearly no changes to the structure from when you and I were in school. Children are being penalized for not sitting properly in a chair for hours when pediatric physical therapists can state for a fact that physical activities including spinning, jumping, and balancing are required in order for the hand to learn to write and read. What's the penalty for not sitting? Shortened recess. Children are not learning to read (see multiple US statistics that support this). Boys in particular are dropping out of high school at higher rates, demonstrating that public curriculum as it is has not engaged them to see the value of the work. A friend of mine recently asked if her son in 6th grade could use a math curriculum during the math hour from a different year (he has tested into advanced math) and was told "No." She also asked if he could use a pencil instead of pen in a writing class, and was told "No." This was in a wealthy and privileged district.
But more to the modern point, standardized curriculum needs to be entirely revised. The new era demands that the population can teach themselves new skills and languages alongside the machines. We need the innate desire to learn, curiosity, to flourish above and beyond anything else.
The Christian advocacies groups that formed to support homeschoolers in the 80s and 90s did so because the state was pointedly out to get them. As I'm sure you know, homeschooling was in fact illegal in many of the states at that point. They happened to be first on the scene to defend families.
I was homeschooled in an evangelical christian until 8th grade at which point I opted to go to school. My six siblings all opted to go into school somewhere between 6-9th grade. All of them have ended up being entrepreneurs. When I arrived in school, I was shocked my how much time my peers were willing to waste every day, waiting to be told the next thing to do. I was surprised by how little interest they had in building relationships with the teachers. And I was astonished by how much relevance they placed on gossip and small cruelties to their peers. I am thankful for my years in high school--the friends, memories, adventures. But I always felt it was an enormous gift to have formed my core memories and curiosities at home.
Thanks for sharing your story, Rachael.
As someone who was also homeschooled through middle school, I can attest to what Rachael wrote here. Also, Rachael, I really like how you worded your last line --"I always felt it was an enormous gift to have formed my core memories and curiosities at home." Agree!