The socialization piece is a top reason WHY we homeschool. I'd prefer having them socialize with other children outside of their grade, along with adults. My husband and I were both homeschooled and our part heard it then. We hear it now. This question needs to die.
This question always feels like a euphemism to me, for “what if your children turn out weird and uncool?” Speaking as a homeschooled adult, I think it’s more natural and more useful to learn to socialize with a wide range of people of all ages. School is a very strange environment, when you think about it, and it’s never recreated in adult life. Even in an office, you’ll be interacting with a much more diverse age range.
In college people would often say to me, “you don’t seem like a homeschooler, you’re so normal!” Etc etc. it always blew my mind that they hadn’t been socialized well enough to realize how rude that was!!
Love this! Somehow (post?)modernity has made us a-historical about most things. We think that our ways are the only/best ways of doing things, and the entire human race up until now, in the West, has been stupid, ignorant, and unworthy of our time! Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but it does get to me after a while. Why do parents feel the need to worship at the altar of GCSEs? Or Ofsted? Or “socialisation” via 30 children of the same age in the same room day after day?
One thing I’ve noticed is that (most) homeschooled children are much more comfortable talking to adults in a normal conversation kind of way, than (most) modern-schooled children. The latter have adults as authority figures only; the former have them as fellow citizens in the neighbourhood, so to speak.
Yes I agree with you Kerri, I think it is very easy for us to forget about the long view. That’s one reason I like reading history, and fiction from previous centuries - people lived and looked at the world in so many different ways! Sometimes it feels that we have a very narrow outlook.
Really love this. Have said that about school not producing perfectly socialised people before. The thing that bugs me the most is, what does socialisation even mean?? Like what is it that people are looking for? Is my shy husband who can't talk in groups "not socialised"? I still find friendships hard sometimes, am I not socialised?? What does it meeean!
Yes, I think a lot of people would struggle to say exactly what socialisation is and why school is the only place it can be acquired. And like all skills, as you suggest, it’s something we have to work at forever, not just until we’re 18!
Thanks for this. It makes me feel a bit better about our homeschooling. I worry about friendships and opportunities for meeting people from different communities as our homeschool world is very white middle class and there are no co-ops or much in the way of group activities other than playground meet ups. I struggle with this a lot and have worked really hard to create opportunities for them but it’s exhausting and sometimes I feel like it would be a lot easier to send them to school where there’s a tonne of kids and they’d surely find a few good pals…but then I’m sure there’d be something else to worry about…maybe being worried is just part of homeschooling (or parenting in general) 🫠 anyway, love your content. X
Definitely worrying is just part of being a parent! And you’re right, there are no easy answers, and no right answers either, just whatever works for you, for now. How old are your children? I think it gets easier to find opportunities for co-ops or groups on certain topics as they get older. I also think that worrying is a sign that you’re doing it right - it shows that you care, that you value certain things (like meeting people from different communities), and that in itself is a good sign that you will take care of those things, as and when you can.
This was nice, as an unschooling parent I completely resonate with your point of view. It is sad in a sense, that how much have we come to rely on schools.
The innate skill of socialising also we believe we are incapable of without the training from schools.
I think the same principles apply for learning, it is a very natural process that we are designed to do. We will keep learning with our without schools, like we will socialise with our without schools. All we have to do is trust in ourselves more and not be so reliant on being guided all the time.
I think what some people are getting at is how will these kids ever do what they're told in an office or a factory??
I'm not at all worried, I've never had a complaint about Cian's behaviour in cricket, Cubs, kickboxing or gymnastics and I think spending time in many different situations has helped with that. I'm also raising him this way so he's more likely to have choices in his future career so he's not in a situation where learning from more experienced people is an awful chore.
Some are just like my sister-in-law though who said "you're weird and you'll make him weird too!"
There’s enough in this comment for at least two blog posts! Funnily enough I had been thinking this week about one along the lines of does homeschooling produce weird kids. And do we care...?!
I'm seeing fewer and fewer reservations against homeschool since even a couple years ago, and the socialization aspect has lost a lot of its punch due to systemic issues in even the good schools. He frame taken in this article is correct, that compulsory schooling is the radical experiment, and homeschooling the standard.
Frankly, the best strategy in dealing with naysayers is to smile and ignore them. The people we need to incessantly badger are the politicians with actual power.
I agree, the overwhelming response I get is ‘wow that’s cool’ and ‘how on earth do you do that?’. I’m nervous about pestering the politicians because in the UK they largely leave the homeschoolers alone and I don’t want to encourage their more active involvement!
If Labour get in, they’ve said quite openly (as I understand it), that they will be coming for home education… I’m not sure what could be done about it now, but it’s good to keep in mind!
I think both major parties are pretty committed to more regulation of home education. Not an easy question, because I do understand the desire to keep children safe, but it also feels like many people and politicians just don’t like the idea of home education.
It also feels like they are unwilling to make the difficult political call of clarifying that they want to stop certain forms of extremism… so instead they label everyone outside of the mainstream as extreme and in need of regulation. Too bad there isn’t a way to educate politicians
That's good. Here in the states, some try to cause trouble because they think we're an easy target. They don't yet realize how aggressive homeschool people are and how fast we can make their life miserable. Usually only takes one time :).
Really good points. Whether in school or not, children benefit from being taught how to behave in different contexts and how to deal with the, inevitable, negative situations they will come across during their lifetimes.
So, the way upper class children were educated in the past is a rationale for homeschooling? The whole point of public school was to support getting toddlers-pre adolescents from working in factories or toiling in fields and providing some basic education about being good, patriotic citizens. Most children lived in horrible slums in the romanticized past that you describe.
Socialization in schools is not just about playtime, it’s about meeting other children of differing social classes, races or ethnicity. And it’s ridiculous to assert that public school kids sit in a desk all day. Sure, home school if that’s your value, but don’t justify it with negation generalizations or outright lies about public school. There’s pluses and minuses to each method. I’d be more confident in your ability to homeschool if you yourself presented a rationale based on positive reasons, rather than imagining some evil intent about people who believe differently or asserting some harmful effect of public school.
Gosh, I think that’s the first unpleasant comment I’ve had in over a year of running How We Homeschool.
I do mention that in the past ‘some’ children were educated by tutors at school. But I also mention children in the past at small village schools with one class of mixed ages, and children who attended no school at all - clearly, the vast majority of children since modern humans have been on the planet. I don’t ‘imagine some evil intent about people who believe differently’. And where do I ‘assert some harmful effect of public school’? I also can’t see where I assert that ‘public school kids sit in a desk all day’.
So I am slightly baffled by your comment. My point in the post is that there are many ways for children to grow up, and that school is only one option (and a very recent one, historically speaking). When people ask home educators ‘what about socialisation?’, it’s as if school is the only place that socialisation can happen, which is clearly nonsense, once we think about it a bit.
Look at your comment about being locked in a cage, for one. One’s personal experience is no way to examine a position. I was trying not to be negative. But, personal experience, I’ve met numerous kids who as adults realized what they missed out on. Personal experience, my daughter was in 5th, 6th, 7th grade class one year and a class of 10th-12th graders for one year, and all grades for some electives. She helped with the school’s TV broadcast station, school plays of all grades, radio station and marching band. Plus numerous special interest clubs, field trips, language classes (she took Spanish), and became the editor of the yearbook after being the art director. Summer and after school were equally varied. So does my daughter’s experience mean public school is better than homeschool? Absolutely not. It all depends. I stand by my position, though, about objecting to YOUR negativity. What concerns me most is the lack of empathy and civic responsibility for ensuring a decent education for all kids.
The socialization piece is a top reason WHY we homeschool. I'd prefer having them socialize with other children outside of their grade, along with adults. My husband and I were both homeschooled and our part heard it then. We hear it now. This question needs to die.
Clearly some things never change!
This question always feels like a euphemism to me, for “what if your children turn out weird and uncool?” Speaking as a homeschooled adult, I think it’s more natural and more useful to learn to socialize with a wide range of people of all ages. School is a very strange environment, when you think about it, and it’s never recreated in adult life. Even in an office, you’ll be interacting with a much more diverse age range.
Yes, I agree, there’s definitely an element of ‘how will they learn to conform?’.
In college people would often say to me, “you don’t seem like a homeschooler, you’re so normal!” Etc etc. it always blew my mind that they hadn’t been socialized well enough to realize how rude that was!!
This made me laugh - for which I thank you!
Love this! Somehow (post?)modernity has made us a-historical about most things. We think that our ways are the only/best ways of doing things, and the entire human race up until now, in the West, has been stupid, ignorant, and unworthy of our time! Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but it does get to me after a while. Why do parents feel the need to worship at the altar of GCSEs? Or Ofsted? Or “socialisation” via 30 children of the same age in the same room day after day?
One thing I’ve noticed is that (most) homeschooled children are much more comfortable talking to adults in a normal conversation kind of way, than (most) modern-schooled children. The latter have adults as authority figures only; the former have them as fellow citizens in the neighbourhood, so to speak.
Yes I agree with you Kerri, I think it is very easy for us to forget about the long view. That’s one reason I like reading history, and fiction from previous centuries - people lived and looked at the world in so many different ways! Sometimes it feels that we have a very narrow outlook.
Really love this. Have said that about school not producing perfectly socialised people before. The thing that bugs me the most is, what does socialisation even mean?? Like what is it that people are looking for? Is my shy husband who can't talk in groups "not socialised"? I still find friendships hard sometimes, am I not socialised?? What does it meeean!
Yes, I think a lot of people would struggle to say exactly what socialisation is and why school is the only place it can be acquired. And like all skills, as you suggest, it’s something we have to work at forever, not just until we’re 18!
Thanks for this. It makes me feel a bit better about our homeschooling. I worry about friendships and opportunities for meeting people from different communities as our homeschool world is very white middle class and there are no co-ops or much in the way of group activities other than playground meet ups. I struggle with this a lot and have worked really hard to create opportunities for them but it’s exhausting and sometimes I feel like it would be a lot easier to send them to school where there’s a tonne of kids and they’d surely find a few good pals…but then I’m sure there’d be something else to worry about…maybe being worried is just part of homeschooling (or parenting in general) 🫠 anyway, love your content. X
Definitely worrying is just part of being a parent! And you’re right, there are no easy answers, and no right answers either, just whatever works for you, for now. How old are your children? I think it gets easier to find opportunities for co-ops or groups on certain topics as they get older. I also think that worrying is a sign that you’re doing it right - it shows that you care, that you value certain things (like meeting people from different communities), and that in itself is a good sign that you will take care of those things, as and when you can.
This was nice, as an unschooling parent I completely resonate with your point of view. It is sad in a sense, that how much have we come to rely on schools.
The innate skill of socialising also we believe we are incapable of without the training from schools.
I think the same principles apply for learning, it is a very natural process that we are designed to do. We will keep learning with our without schools, like we will socialise with our without schools. All we have to do is trust in ourselves more and not be so reliant on being guided all the time.
I think what some people are getting at is how will these kids ever do what they're told in an office or a factory??
I'm not at all worried, I've never had a complaint about Cian's behaviour in cricket, Cubs, kickboxing or gymnastics and I think spending time in many different situations has helped with that. I'm also raising him this way so he's more likely to have choices in his future career so he's not in a situation where learning from more experienced people is an awful chore.
Some are just like my sister-in-law though who said "you're weird and you'll make him weird too!"
There’s enough in this comment for at least two blog posts! Funnily enough I had been thinking this week about one along the lines of does homeschooling produce weird kids. And do we care...?!
I think all kids are weird in their own delightful ways and school teaches them to hide it ;)
I'm seeing fewer and fewer reservations against homeschool since even a couple years ago, and the socialization aspect has lost a lot of its punch due to systemic issues in even the good schools. He frame taken in this article is correct, that compulsory schooling is the radical experiment, and homeschooling the standard.
Frankly, the best strategy in dealing with naysayers is to smile and ignore them. The people we need to incessantly badger are the politicians with actual power.
I agree, the overwhelming response I get is ‘wow that’s cool’ and ‘how on earth do you do that?’. I’m nervous about pestering the politicians because in the UK they largely leave the homeschoolers alone and I don’t want to encourage their more active involvement!
If Labour get in, they’ve said quite openly (as I understand it), that they will be coming for home education… I’m not sure what could be done about it now, but it’s good to keep in mind!
I think both major parties are pretty committed to more regulation of home education. Not an easy question, because I do understand the desire to keep children safe, but it also feels like many people and politicians just don’t like the idea of home education.
It also feels like they are unwilling to make the difficult political call of clarifying that they want to stop certain forms of extremism… so instead they label everyone outside of the mainstream as extreme and in need of regulation. Too bad there isn’t a way to educate politicians
That's good. Here in the states, some try to cause trouble because they think we're an easy target. They don't yet realize how aggressive homeschool people are and how fast we can make their life miserable. Usually only takes one time :).
Really good points. Whether in school or not, children benefit from being taught how to behave in different contexts and how to deal with the, inevitable, negative situations they will come across during their lifetimes.
Insightful. Thank you
Thank you Susie!
So, the way upper class children were educated in the past is a rationale for homeschooling? The whole point of public school was to support getting toddlers-pre adolescents from working in factories or toiling in fields and providing some basic education about being good, patriotic citizens. Most children lived in horrible slums in the romanticized past that you describe.
Socialization in schools is not just about playtime, it’s about meeting other children of differing social classes, races or ethnicity. And it’s ridiculous to assert that public school kids sit in a desk all day. Sure, home school if that’s your value, but don’t justify it with negation generalizations or outright lies about public school. There’s pluses and minuses to each method. I’d be more confident in your ability to homeschool if you yourself presented a rationale based on positive reasons, rather than imagining some evil intent about people who believe differently or asserting some harmful effect of public school.
Gosh, I think that’s the first unpleasant comment I’ve had in over a year of running How We Homeschool.
I do mention that in the past ‘some’ children were educated by tutors at school. But I also mention children in the past at small village schools with one class of mixed ages, and children who attended no school at all - clearly, the vast majority of children since modern humans have been on the planet. I don’t ‘imagine some evil intent about people who believe differently’. And where do I ‘assert some harmful effect of public school’? I also can’t see where I assert that ‘public school kids sit in a desk all day’.
So I am slightly baffled by your comment. My point in the post is that there are many ways for children to grow up, and that school is only one option (and a very recent one, historically speaking). When people ask home educators ‘what about socialisation?’, it’s as if school is the only place that socialisation can happen, which is clearly nonsense, once we think about it a bit.
Look at your comment about being locked in a cage, for one. One’s personal experience is no way to examine a position. I was trying not to be negative. But, personal experience, I’ve met numerous kids who as adults realized what they missed out on. Personal experience, my daughter was in 5th, 6th, 7th grade class one year and a class of 10th-12th graders for one year, and all grades for some electives. She helped with the school’s TV broadcast station, school plays of all grades, radio station and marching band. Plus numerous special interest clubs, field trips, language classes (she took Spanish), and became the editor of the yearbook after being the art director. Summer and after school were equally varied. So does my daughter’s experience mean public school is better than homeschool? Absolutely not. It all depends. I stand by my position, though, about objecting to YOUR negativity. What concerns me most is the lack of empathy and civic responsibility for ensuring a decent education for all kids.
What comment about being locked in a cage? You’ve lost me on this one.