People have always taken photos of other people who are in public. I find it odd that people are offended by this in a world where we are constantly surveilled and photographed or video-recorded without our knowledge. Being photographed in public is not new or abnormal. What’s new is the wide access to cameras and the ability for anyone to capture and publish images widely, without discretion.
The wide access to cameras is definitely part of the issue for me. Back when we had 24 or 36 photos on a roll of film, you probably wouldn’t waste a shot taking a picture of someone else’s kids. But now there’s no limit to how many you can take, and we all take So Many! Certainly when I was a child (and beyond), I don’t recall a single instant of someone with a camera taking photos of other people (beyond people being in a scene incidentally). Now it’s become completely normalised. And I just think people should have the right not to have their photo taken if that’s what they want. When adults don’t even ask before take a picture, they remove the choice. I think that’s rude.
And as you say, you don’t know where the photos will end up. Indeed, we are all monitored all the time, but that makes me even more keen to preserve some privacy for my children when I can.
Yes, exactly. Before the digital age there were few people photographing children and being photographed in public was special and fun. When I started as a photojournalist in the nineteen eighties children always came running “Take our picture!” Today it is more difficult. And as someone who went on working with old photographs - the images we have, that photographer’s spontaneously took of children - are some of the most important in history. I think one of the problems nowadays is how people turn their children into content, to make money - using images from private situations.
I hate it too, it feels so strange and uncomfortable, especially for the children. Why should they be asked to find it normal that adult strangers want to take their photograph? The argument that it's "just the way things are now" makes me angry -- fine, take a crowd photograph with lots of people in it, but to walk up to a child you don't know and take a photograph is beyond the pale.
As a former educator, I know that teachers will also think about how we had "no-photograph" policies for some of the children we supervised, often because posting photographs of those children could be dangerous for them. There are many very serious reasons why children might not want to be photographed.
This. I don’t mind my child being photographed by official photographers at events we go to (as long as they ask) but for some children there are really important reasons why they should not have their photographs shared. It’s not something to take lightly.
If I have the option l, I always check the "do not share/post pictures of my kid from this event"box. When he is older, he can decide for himself but since I am in charge now, I say no. It is very easy to take cute photos at an event without seeing children's faces.
Yes, I do the same. I would like to be able to say to my children, at some point, “You are not on the internet - if you want to be, now you're old enough to decide, that's your decision to make."
Yes! I was ready to tell one place that if they wanted to hire my kid as a model for their social media advertising, I will tell you his rate. He doesn't work for you for free! Luckily it didn't come to that but I was ready. People and businesses can't just assume everyone wants their kids on the Internet.
I think people who claim to be artists have always felt comfortable taking pictures of anyone, including children. I took a college photography class in 2001 and our professor said to be mindful of taking pictures of children and be ready to hand over your film if someone got really upset. It is probably even less obvious now that most cameras are on phones.
I also think privacy has gone by the wayside (cameras in locker rooms bother me a lot!) and so many parents have no problem putting their kids' images online without their consent, a lot of people think the world is their photography oyster.
The best part of this is that your daughter spoke up. I love that she did that and we all need to follow her example. We don't have to jump to "Mama bear" levels but we can and should say "stop that" especially for our kids.
I don’t have a problem with being included in a wider shot, but I think it’s different when the photo is clearly of an individual or small group. If you don’t want to have your photo taken, you shouldn’t have to. And I agree that part of the problem is that privacy has diminished so much. Lots of people do put their children’s photos online, like you say, and of course we are surveilled constantly. I think that’s partly why people think it’s no big deal to take their own photos of other people’s children. Lots of people’s expectations around privacy have shifted. But mine haven’t!
I agree. Everyone having a camera is really a problem because a lot of people are irresponsible and worse, immature. One of my biggest fears for my son as he gets older is being photographed in a private situation, like the bathroom at school. I know kids would have done that at my school growing up and it really worries me. I do educational programs and see how some teens are afraid to show enthusiasm over anything because they don't want to be recorded and ridiculed. Being constantly under surveillance is really bad!
You’re right. It definitely seems odd. My guess is is a combo between the ubiquitous access to cameras now and the complete deterioration of all things decorum
I don't live in a city nearly as overrun by tourists as London, yet it's happened frequently when I'm out with my children in our city centre. I don't understand why it's become so commonplace to not ask permission first.
I've never actually experienced this personally. But, if I did I would most probably have a thing or 2 to say!lol I read your post and I must say whether it's just something that people do these days, I find it a bit bizarre and alarming tbh. Why on earth would u want to photograph someone else's children. How do u know that's not a pedophile with camera. I understand if your children are absolutely jaw droppingly stunning and u ask permission maybe, but still I find it a little weird.
When we are in a public space there is NO expectation of privacy - none. While children and adults may find it annoying, there is nothing illegal (in most circumstances) about 'street photography'
You may be within your rights to call the police and have them question the person doing the photographing, but there is no legal reason why they can not photograph you or your children in a public space.
As for asking, even politely that this practice be stopped - the simple answer is no. You and your children are constantly surveilled - in stores, at the mall, on your phone or tablet or computer. You are tracked if you have a library card, drivers license mortgage, doctors appointment, newspaper or magazine subscription.
Truth is - this intrusion into your lives and those of your children is here to stay - your choice is to adjust or protest, but realize that there is absolutely nothing you say or do will stop anyone who owns a camera or cellphone.
But in all those things like street surveillance what you can do with those images is legally tightly controlled so there is a difference. Asking courteously not to have your kids photographer by a random stranger is well within your rights, even if you can't force them.
Asking courteously - yes, expecting everyone to respect your wishes is really a stretch.
Interestingly - many who decry the lack of privacy out of doors will foolishly post photos of their children on fb, inst and tik tok when their children are acting silly.
You can’t stop rude or stupid or foolish and quite frankly there are much bigger hills to die on than this one. Teaching children manners, being aware of their surroundings and becoming a caring person is what should concern parents more than the occasional happy snapper.
BTW…the laws regarding street surveillance are not nearly as regulated as you might think!
I agree on people posting their kids on FB etc. it can be really interesting on kids lives. My kids asked not to be put on FB any more after they had safe Internet classes at school age 8 and 6 and I stopped. My cohort of parents was the first to have social media around as they had babies. I think views are changing about that now and some parents are a little more reflective about it's use. *Some*!
I feel like this doesn't happen as often here in the U.S.? At least not by adults. I have found teens recording/photographing other people's children because they think they're acting funny/cute and just put it down to them not being aware yet. We live in a smaller than average city (Pittsburgh) so that might have something to do with it.
I don't understand the mentality of people doing this. The only time I take photos of other people's children is on a Sunday morning on a rugby pitch, and that is because I am their coach and I like to get a team photo at the end of a match to share with the parents!
I used to call it "middle aged man with an expensive camera" syndrome. My dad came back from China with so many pictures, I asked if he actually saw the place with his own eyes. He didn't think that was funny. He really felt like a professional photographer and had the 1000s of pictures to prove it. Now, sadly, it's everyone!
When I grew up in the 1970s, this was commonplace.
As well, there was a time when if you knew someone's name, you could look it up in a large book, and it'd have their phone number and address.
Strange times, I know.
As an aside, among all the children I know, there has been only one case of the images taken of them being used for illicit purposes. The photographer was their father.
The "stranger! danger!" narrative does not reflect reality. There's unlikely to be any danger, but if there is, it's likely to be someone they know and who you wouldn't suspect, not some random in a park. Track down the book Free Range Kids.
As I say in the post, it’s not the stranger danger aspect that worries me. If we want our children to have what freedom is left to them in the 21st century, surely that has to include not being photographed by strangers and having those photos shared who-knows-where, without the child’s consent. In the days of telephone directories, people had the freedom to opt out if they wanted.
But I don’t understand your argument. Is it that because some parents are a danger to their own children, children should let anyone at all take their photo? As someone without a recent-looking profile photo or identifiable name, you seem to like a degree of anonymity yourself!
I’m saying that your concerns are misplaced. It’s like someone who’s preparing dinner carefully arranging the dinner setting when they didn’t wash their hands after going to the toilet and before preparing their food.
Notability bias often misleads us in this way. The misdeeds of people close to the children are generally hidden (the father I know who molested and photographed his children, his name is legally suppressed to protect the mental health of his children from schoolmates etc, and of course extended family simply don’t discuss it), whereas the misdeeds of strangers are shouted from the media rooftops and social media soapboxes.
Similarly, we’re more afraid of flying than driving, more afraid of firearms than knives, more afraid of a homicide in our family than a suicide, more afraid of hunger than obesity, and so on.
As for me, I’m Jewish, and in my country we’ve been subjected to anti-semitic attacks recently. So I’m not putting my real name here for the same reason my son and I don’t wear a kippah in the street.
But my post has nothing to do with fear or danger. I specifically say I’m not concerned about criminal intent. You have chosen, for very understandable reasons, not to have a current photograph of yourself on your Substack profile. I’m just saying that we should all have the option to choose whether photos of ourselves are online, and when people take pictures without permission, that option is removed.
People have always taken photos of other people who are in public. I find it odd that people are offended by this in a world where we are constantly surveilled and photographed or video-recorded without our knowledge. Being photographed in public is not new or abnormal. What’s new is the wide access to cameras and the ability for anyone to capture and publish images widely, without discretion.
The wide access to cameras is definitely part of the issue for me. Back when we had 24 or 36 photos on a roll of film, you probably wouldn’t waste a shot taking a picture of someone else’s kids. But now there’s no limit to how many you can take, and we all take So Many! Certainly when I was a child (and beyond), I don’t recall a single instant of someone with a camera taking photos of other people (beyond people being in a scene incidentally). Now it’s become completely normalised. And I just think people should have the right not to have their photo taken if that’s what they want. When adults don’t even ask before take a picture, they remove the choice. I think that’s rude.
And as you say, you don’t know where the photos will end up. Indeed, we are all monitored all the time, but that makes me even more keen to preserve some privacy for my children when I can.
Yes, exactly. Before the digital age there were few people photographing children and being photographed in public was special and fun. When I started as a photojournalist in the nineteen eighties children always came running “Take our picture!” Today it is more difficult. And as someone who went on working with old photographs - the images we have, that photographer’s spontaneously took of children - are some of the most important in history. I think one of the problems nowadays is how people turn their children into content, to make money - using images from private situations.
I hate it too, it feels so strange and uncomfortable, especially for the children. Why should they be asked to find it normal that adult strangers want to take their photograph? The argument that it's "just the way things are now" makes me angry -- fine, take a crowd photograph with lots of people in it, but to walk up to a child you don't know and take a photograph is beyond the pale.
As a former educator, I know that teachers will also think about how we had "no-photograph" policies for some of the children we supervised, often because posting photographs of those children could be dangerous for them. There are many very serious reasons why children might not want to be photographed.
This. I don’t mind my child being photographed by official photographers at events we go to (as long as they ask) but for some children there are really important reasons why they should not have their photographs shared. It’s not something to take lightly.
If I have the option l, I always check the "do not share/post pictures of my kid from this event"box. When he is older, he can decide for himself but since I am in charge now, I say no. It is very easy to take cute photos at an event without seeing children's faces.
Yes, I do the same. I would like to be able to say to my children, at some point, “You are not on the internet - if you want to be, now you're old enough to decide, that's your decision to make."
Yes! I was ready to tell one place that if they wanted to hire my kid as a model for their social media advertising, I will tell you his rate. He doesn't work for you for free! Luckily it didn't come to that but I was ready. People and businesses can't just assume everyone wants their kids on the Internet.
Totally agree with you on all of this!
I think people who claim to be artists have always felt comfortable taking pictures of anyone, including children. I took a college photography class in 2001 and our professor said to be mindful of taking pictures of children and be ready to hand over your film if someone got really upset. It is probably even less obvious now that most cameras are on phones.
I also think privacy has gone by the wayside (cameras in locker rooms bother me a lot!) and so many parents have no problem putting their kids' images online without their consent, a lot of people think the world is their photography oyster.
The best part of this is that your daughter spoke up. I love that she did that and we all need to follow her example. We don't have to jump to "Mama bear" levels but we can and should say "stop that" especially for our kids.
I don’t have a problem with being included in a wider shot, but I think it’s different when the photo is clearly of an individual or small group. If you don’t want to have your photo taken, you shouldn’t have to. And I agree that part of the problem is that privacy has diminished so much. Lots of people do put their children’s photos online, like you say, and of course we are surveilled constantly. I think that’s partly why people think it’s no big deal to take their own photos of other people’s children. Lots of people’s expectations around privacy have shifted. But mine haven’t!
I agree. Everyone having a camera is really a problem because a lot of people are irresponsible and worse, immature. One of my biggest fears for my son as he gets older is being photographed in a private situation, like the bathroom at school. I know kids would have done that at my school growing up and it really worries me. I do educational programs and see how some teens are afraid to show enthusiasm over anything because they don't want to be recorded and ridiculed. Being constantly under surveillance is really bad!
My instinctive reaction is, if someone takes photos of your children, take photos of them taking photos of your children and see if they like it…
You’re right. It definitely seems odd. My guess is is a combo between the ubiquitous access to cameras now and the complete deterioration of all things decorum
I don't live in a city nearly as overrun by tourists as London, yet it's happened frequently when I'm out with my children in our city centre. I don't understand why it's become so commonplace to not ask permission first.
I've never actually experienced this personally. But, if I did I would most probably have a thing or 2 to say!lol I read your post and I must say whether it's just something that people do these days, I find it a bit bizarre and alarming tbh. Why on earth would u want to photograph someone else's children. How do u know that's not a pedophile with camera. I understand if your children are absolutely jaw droppingly stunning and u ask permission maybe, but still I find it a little weird.
It was never abnormal -
When we are in a public space there is NO expectation of privacy - none. While children and adults may find it annoying, there is nothing illegal (in most circumstances) about 'street photography'
You may be within your rights to call the police and have them question the person doing the photographing, but there is no legal reason why they can not photograph you or your children in a public space.
As for asking, even politely that this practice be stopped - the simple answer is no. You and your children are constantly surveilled - in stores, at the mall, on your phone or tablet or computer. You are tracked if you have a library card, drivers license mortgage, doctors appointment, newspaper or magazine subscription.
Truth is - this intrusion into your lives and those of your children is here to stay - your choice is to adjust or protest, but realize that there is absolutely nothing you say or do will stop anyone who owns a camera or cellphone.
illegal and immoral are two very different things.
But in all those things like street surveillance what you can do with those images is legally tightly controlled so there is a difference. Asking courteously not to have your kids photographer by a random stranger is well within your rights, even if you can't force them.
Asking courteously - yes, expecting everyone to respect your wishes is really a stretch.
Interestingly - many who decry the lack of privacy out of doors will foolishly post photos of their children on fb, inst and tik tok when their children are acting silly.
You can’t stop rude or stupid or foolish and quite frankly there are much bigger hills to die on than this one. Teaching children manners, being aware of their surroundings and becoming a caring person is what should concern parents more than the occasional happy snapper.
BTW…the laws regarding street surveillance are not nearly as regulated as you might think!
I agree on people posting their kids on FB etc. it can be really interesting on kids lives. My kids asked not to be put on FB any more after they had safe Internet classes at school age 8 and 6 and I stopped. My cohort of parents was the first to have social media around as they had babies. I think views are changing about that now and some parents are a little more reflective about it's use. *Some*!
Totally agree.
I feel like this doesn't happen as often here in the U.S.? At least not by adults. I have found teens recording/photographing other people's children because they think they're acting funny/cute and just put it down to them not being aware yet. We live in a smaller than average city (Pittsburgh) so that might have something to do with it.
I don't understand the mentality of people doing this. The only time I take photos of other people's children is on a Sunday morning on a rugby pitch, and that is because I am their coach and I like to get a team photo at the end of a match to share with the parents!
I know, me too! Why would you want to look back through your photos to see some child you’ve never met and have no connection to?!
There are no boundaries recognized by the narcissist.
I think folks feels like photographers with their phones, and they aren't going to ask permission first because it would ruin the shot.
I used to call it "middle aged man with an expensive camera" syndrome. My dad came back from China with so many pictures, I asked if he actually saw the place with his own eyes. He didn't think that was funny. He really felt like a professional photographer and had the 1000s of pictures to prove it. Now, sadly, it's everyone!
When I grew up in the 1970s, this was commonplace.
As well, there was a time when if you knew someone's name, you could look it up in a large book, and it'd have their phone number and address.
Strange times, I know.
As an aside, among all the children I know, there has been only one case of the images taken of them being used for illicit purposes. The photographer was their father.
The "stranger! danger!" narrative does not reflect reality. There's unlikely to be any danger, but if there is, it's likely to be someone they know and who you wouldn't suspect, not some random in a park. Track down the book Free Range Kids.
As I say in the post, it’s not the stranger danger aspect that worries me. If we want our children to have what freedom is left to them in the 21st century, surely that has to include not being photographed by strangers and having those photos shared who-knows-where, without the child’s consent. In the days of telephone directories, people had the freedom to opt out if they wanted.
Again you mention strangers. Again, strangers are not as significant an issue as those close to the child.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-09/instagram-meta-monetised-child-influencer-account-ban/104190956
But I don’t understand your argument. Is it that because some parents are a danger to their own children, children should let anyone at all take their photo? As someone without a recent-looking profile photo or identifiable name, you seem to like a degree of anonymity yourself!
I’m saying that your concerns are misplaced. It’s like someone who’s preparing dinner carefully arranging the dinner setting when they didn’t wash their hands after going to the toilet and before preparing their food.
Notability bias often misleads us in this way. The misdeeds of people close to the children are generally hidden (the father I know who molested and photographed his children, his name is legally suppressed to protect the mental health of his children from schoolmates etc, and of course extended family simply don’t discuss it), whereas the misdeeds of strangers are shouted from the media rooftops and social media soapboxes.
Similarly, we’re more afraid of flying than driving, more afraid of firearms than knives, more afraid of a homicide in our family than a suicide, more afraid of hunger than obesity, and so on.
As for me, I’m Jewish, and in my country we’ve been subjected to anti-semitic attacks recently. So I’m not putting my real name here for the same reason my son and I don’t wear a kippah in the street.
But my post has nothing to do with fear or danger. I specifically say I’m not concerned about criminal intent. You have chosen, for very understandable reasons, not to have a current photograph of yourself on your Substack profile. I’m just saying that we should all have the option to choose whether photos of ourselves are online, and when people take pictures without permission, that option is removed.